RH Episode Discussion - 1x13

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

Okay guys, time for a bit of episode discussion to get the Robin love flowing. That sounds sort of wrong...

1x13 is the chosen episode to be discussed first, as the favourite of season 1 as voted by you. As with the BoB discussion, if you have not yet seen the episode (doubtful, I realise), it is needless to say there will be spoilers below, and in the comments to this entry. Enter at your own peril. Or something slightly less sinister.

And again, just to keep things from getting too tricky for everyone to follow, when you begin discussion on one of the suggested points below, please put a subject on your comment. If you're discussing a new point, please do the same, and not reply to that comment. That way everything will stay in its own place, and make life easier for everyone. Also, once comment threads start reaching the edge of the page, feel free to start a new comment, so that they are, again, easier for everyone to follow. (On this point, if you bring up a discussion topic not listed below, if you add a subject, it will make things easier to follow)

On to the discussion. Again, as before, these are more guidelines than actual rules discussion points. Feel free to bring up anything not mentioned here. There's plenty to talk about in this episode that I haven't included.


Discussion Points:

1. Berserker!Robs. Awesome, yes?

2. The "I am marrying him", conversation between Robin and Marian. Thoughts? Likes, dislikes? (Wanted to yell at Marian like I did?)

3. Favourite quote from the episode.

4. Favourite actor - for their performance in this episode specifically.

5. On a scale of one to ten, how hard do you want to rip off Robs's clothes when he's in Berserker! mode? (Thanks to railise for this question. :D)

6. Favourite character - Seems redundant in this comm, but again, for this episode specifically.

7. Marian's punch. Thoughts?

8. The berserker! fight scene when the Outlaws show team leather who rocks. Thoughts on Robs throwing his no killing policy out the window, did you like the way it was filmed/acted/etc etc?

9. Did you feel any character in this episode acted OOC?

10. Robs semi auto arrow shooting. Thoughts, fangirlish squeeing about this.

11. The scene between Much and Robin (when Robin gets shoved for being a meanie). Thoughts on this. Necessary? Was Robs overboard on the cruelty, or do you feel for him because you know how much he is hurting at that moment?

12. "I am sick of doing the right thing." Thoughts on this Robin and Edward scene.

13. Have you seen this episode with the commentary? If yes, thoughts on this?

14. The final sequence, with Vaizey flailing about in the air. Awesome, or over the top and silly?

15. Robin's decision to just walk away from it all. Did you think this was an understandable/justified reaction?

16. The KISS (You know the one I mean). Thoughts of FINALLY and general squee about it?

17. On the subject of the kiss, and them not wanting to be seen entering together...those two guards at the gate. Mannequins?

18. Edward. Did you like his scenes in this episode? Do you think we should have seen more of him?

19. Favourite scene overall, for whatever reason you have chosen it.

20. Anything you would have done differently in this episode if you magically had control and could change it.

21.
[Poll #1547800]

Hope this promotes some interesting discussion. Have fun!

Comments

[marjattak.livejournal.com]

Ha! Devil's advocate argument coming up next...

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

I quite like and agree with several of your points regarding Robin not being in the wrong there, though I think the personal attack "Pox on my skin" was a bit much.

[marjattak.livejournal.com]

It was admittedly graphic, but also a bit Shakespearean. Question is, how much does it take to get rid of Much? Maybe that Much? I'm just paying honor to Much's loyalty here. He proved he's not stupid or masochistic. I feel for him, too, but I think he's better off being angry at Robin and leaving of his own accord than simply being ordered to leave and feeling wholly rejected.

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

If that was Robin's game I think it was a dangerous game to play lol. I don't know, I tend to think at that point he hadn't decided to leave yet. So I think of it as lashing out because he is so hurt/upset/desperate. So in that regard, Much is owed some apology.

[marjattak.livejournal.com]

You make a good point. Robin still has his last ditch effort/scene with Marian to come, but surely, he is already overwhelmed by how (he perceives) she has abandoned him? So he does the same to Much, in effect. That part isn't rational, just a gut reaction. In fact it all is, but I'm arguing that there is a fundamental altruism that is affecting how Robin behaves.

Considering how things have been going and all the chances Marian has had to reject the wedding, I don't think Robin has any hope left, even when he confronts Marian one last time. He only does so, I think, just to see her and to get some kind of closure. So he could easily be thinking about leaving everything behind, even before Much finds him.

And I would have loved to have seen Robin later apologize to Much to being mean. It is a very disturbing scene, but then, I think that was deliberately constructed so that we'd know how deeply Robin is affected by Marian's defection to Guy. The exchange with Much only proves that Robin *really* cares only about her love, not about having lands, wealth, title, or even his freedom--all those things that Much talks about. If Robin doesn't know that this Richard is a fake (and how could he *know* at this point?), then he's even walking away from his chance to get so much as a pardon. What Robin is saying is that his life isn't worth anything without Marian. He can't just go on somehow. Much does provoke him, even if it is inadvertantly (although Much is being extremely insensitive on the subject of Marian and should know better). I think that's obvious.

Yes, I like Much, too, but he can also be self-centered. They both should apologize to each other!

[marjattak.livejournal.com]

P.S. I really love this discussion. I hope no one is being put out by my arguments. I can just really relate to what is happening to Robin at this point. There are so many layers.

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

Oh, it's fine don't worry. Interesting, reasonable discussion like this is fantastic. And the whole point of this post. :D

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

We're in agreement on that point about Marian - you really get a sense of that. Of the fact that without having her love in return, or of being able to have her...nothing else matters (And we of course get the proof of this later in show, in 3x01).

Yes, whenever I watch it and Much saying that Robin has to let Gisborne steal his life, I think bad timing Much. But at the same time, he's looking out for Robin. What can Robin do? Not a whole lot. And Much doesn't know Robin is thinking of leaving (if he even is by this point), and would certainly not want Robin to leave. He is, in a way, trying to get Robin to see the bigger picture.

[amarra-jade.livejournal.com]

But at the same time, he's looking out for Robin. What can Robin do? Not a whole lot. And Much doesn't know Robin is thinking of leaving (if he even is by this point), and would certainly not want Robin to leave. He is, in a way, trying to get Robin to see the bigger picture.

Agreed. I don't think there's any need for Much to apologize. He was trying to cheer Robin up the only way he could think of, not being deliberately cruel like Robin.

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't think Robin's cruelty here is deliberate. I tend to think that he is lashing out without thinking about it at all cause he is hurting so much. This of course does not excuse it.

[amarra-jade.livejournal.com]

I don't know -- he's smiling while saying all those horrible things to Much, so I think maybe he thought it would make him feel better to make someone else hurt as much as he was hurting.

[mylogiceatsyou.livejournal.com]

True enough about the smile. So perhaps he was thinking he wants someone to feel as completely rotten as he does...but just isn't thinking more than a few minutes ahead, in terms of the consequences. Because as soon as he is done saying it and Much has shoved him, the little smile/smirk is gone.